Foil Ketos

hi folks,

i want to open an english twin thread to this one: Test du foil orana.. i read the the original thread with google translator and sometimes had a good laught due to funny translations. i think i got most of it but i also missed a lot.

i got it on the 14.10.2011 and have had several sessions on it with a total of 24 hours and 363km so far:

things i have noticed so far:

- the board is a lot lighter than it looks. therefore handling is very comfortable.
- remove 2 skrews and it goes into a tiny car, that is important to me.
- the deck seems to be a good compromise. the big scoop saved me from many crashes. when going upwind one corner of the swallow tail touches the water sometimes. it comes with one footstrap. i tried to begin without, but that was hopeless. the single frontstrap works well for me at the moment.
- mast seems to be well designed. sharp at the tailing edge. quite thin over all. different thickness.
- foil features proper wing profile with the idea of winglets. angle of attack is different at the wingtips to the middle of the wing.
- i don't understand why fuselage is rather flat at the bottom.
- unfortunately the fin has a different distance of the two windings so you cannot use a kitesurfing fin after you hit the ground once too often.
- roll axis and pitch axis are quite unstable, i need more practice.
- no problem with yaw axis
- stunning upwind and low wind performance. still makes me wonder how this could possibly be. i need to practice downwind badly before doing serious upwind orgies.

h.

some questions:
- did the ketos foils change over time? is there some kind of version history.
- cermal mentioned a new main wing and a new stab coming soon. are there more infos yet? do i maybe have the new parts already since my board is from october 14th? what will be different?

h.

Its a board that is in constant evolution - everyone is trying new stuff and we're all learning as we go along Holden. Pierre and Anne at 3G are right on the ball and are working with a few people who are providing them with good feedback and it appears that their product is moving forward positively - I can't tell you more than that.

You have the last version, the same since july. The Kêtôs is build in mold.
Mast fuselage and board are validate since more than 20 foils.
We are still in movement on the 2 fins, we will have new one and that will be compatible with all version.
We are waiting news from cermal and other guys to validate this new fins.

thank you for the information! now i do understand better.

hi folks, welcome to 2012!

i saw that there are some results on the new foils. the google translation did give some clues but i am still puzzled. please post some words in english, thanks!

since our lake is still not frozen i got some sessions on my foilboard lately. i was very, very close to manage my first tack. no jibe yet but i am very close. all in all i am getting a lot more comfortable on my ketos.

h.

respect man, your limit is frozen water ... in my place, our limit is way warmer
about the ketos, I have no specific info, what are wondering in fact ?

I'm not sure that holden is only speaking about Kêtôs, I think you want some news of what's new in the foil world,
Am I wrong ?

i was refering to this thread bottom: https://kitefoil.forumactif.org/t497p210-test-du-foil-orana

as i understand there are two new parts for the ketos. the main wing and the horizontal stabilizer.
i found the new horizontal stab on the 3g composite website:
http://www.3gcomposite.com/boutique/produit.php?ref=kr80-360&id_rubrique=31

i am interested in how the foil changes with these new parts.

yesterday, 7°C, sun, great wind. i don't want to miss that. and it is all about the right (dry)suit.

h.

So,
ok to make it short and to be honest I will say that this is not a Revolution but an Evolution.
We keep the same outline for the front fin, but give him some diet :
that means for Renaud "the front fin much more better,"
for Cermal it is faster, much more stable in high speed...

for the rear fin (horizontal ) we change the size from the chord from 105 to 80, that means faster in low wind, better in rolling,
Renaud said "very good range of wind (funny behaviour in low wind)
for Cermal the rear fin is very good except in the wave where the one you have seems to be better.
I think that Renaud is fluent in english, try to ask him about this evolution, maybe that will give movment in the english part
Anne

Hello,
I envy your foil sessions but 7c! Is this air or water, would be nice to know both.
I normally have 10c air, 10c h2o limit, for now with only 5 4 3 wetsuit.
You mention it is all about correct dry suit, do you care to share what mark and make?
And as for your feet and hands?
Maybe you are cold blooded?
Good for you, passion rules!
Sam

thanks anne! this is the info i was looking for. evolution is better than revolution if you have a good product. i am not in the position yet to discuss the fine differences with the pros. but i am interestet in what exactly changes in design and what that changes result into. this way i can decide to eighter order the new parts or to just practice more :-)

i assume that you want to develop one design for all customers and every condition. as for myself i would not mind having two or three sets of main wings and horizontal stabs for different riding style and conditions. for example racing, high speed, or tight turns/fun foiling. i am just talking future here. i am very happy with the setup i got right now.

i will give Renaud a shout. i want to varify if "better in rolling" means faster or slower or something other than that.

@sam grub: i opened a thread to discuss warm compfy winter kiting. https://kitefoil.forumactif.org/t886-cold-nah#8370

Holden,
Thank you for all the perfect info for cold weather riding, I will check it all out!
There are guys on the french side who might like this info but maybe never come to this side,
maybe you could post it there, even if in simple english or bad french.
Being the idea behind forums is to share, I really believe you have some first hand important info
the french would like!
And it is after all winter!
I think I remember the administrator laurent ness wanting exactly this info.
Again big thanx,

Sam

@sam: you are very welcome! as my french is way too limited, please open a thread on my behalf. i moved the issue to a dedicated thread.
https://kitefoil.forumactif.org/t886-cold-nah#8370

hi...

I have been quite busy last month and couldn't foil much since my last post on french part of the forum.

however if I can give some feedback I would be glad to do so.

just let me know what you like to know.

i am interested in every aspect that has changed.

as i understand the main wing has the same outline but a thinner profile. this leads to more speed overall, less induced resistance i guess. is it noticable easier to handle high speeds? the maximum speed i got with my current setup was around 20 knots. crashes at that speed are not too pleasant. is it easier with the new wing (not the crashing but going without chrashing ;-)?

the horizontal stab has the same wingspan but the outline area is quite a bit smaller. the profile has to be thinner, too. how does that affect rolling behavior? faster or slower? does it stall in low speeds?

did you test both new parts at once, or did you combine them with the older parts, too?

thanks, h.

hehe, there will be a second ketos foilborder here soon! he will be on the new foils, brilliant!

hi folks,

after 540km on my ketos i invested in the race front foil and the moustache backfin. my vmax increased from 20 to almost 24 knots. the board feels a lot better. you need a wee bit more speed to get going but you will be rewarded with a superstable ride. changes in aoa do not result in aggressive reaction by the board. very nice!

h.