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 Foil Alum ou Carbon ?

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canyon83
orwell
aventout
7 participants
AuteurMessage
orwell
Membre


Kitesurf depuis/since : 9
Messages : 21
Age : 43
Localisation : Argentina
Weight/Poids: : 75
Foil: : none
Kites/Ailes: : Ozone Edge
Wind/Vent: : 12
Inscription : 23/10/2015

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyLun 26 Oct 2015 - 3:20

Bonjour, pardon por mon Francais.

Que-est que tu pense de le foils de alum?

Que foil tu recomend pour commencer ?

Merci !
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aventout
Membre et Modo
aventout

Kitesurf depuis/since : 1997
Masculin Messages : 1150
Age : 65
Localisation : le grand sud est de la France et le grand Nordeste du Brésil
Weight/Poids: : 88
Foil: : Perso + Ketos + AlpineFoil + F.One

Kites/Ailes: : Naish Ride 5
F.One Bandit S 6m
F.One Bandit S 7m1
F.One Bandit S 9m
Naish Trip 10
Wind/Vent: : J'aime bien 18 nds et les vagues du Bresil en foil
Inscription : 22/10/2008

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyLun 26 Oct 2015 - 3:46

C'est suffisant pour débuter et bien progresser, en plus c'est pas le même tarif.

_________________
Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Footer13
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http://www.casa-manjericao.com
chris_middleton
Membre
chris_middleton

Kitesurf depuis/since : 1997
Masculin Messages : 601
Age : 59
Localisation : Montpellier
Weight/Poids: : 93Kgs
Foil: : Zeeko Spitfire
Kites/Ailes: : North Carves
Wind/Vent: : 8-40 knts
Inscription : 01/10/2008

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyLun 26 Oct 2015 - 11:06

Hi Orwel, I'm not certain if you understand English but here goes from an English guy who's been foiling since the beginning of 2008 in France. For the majority of riders (probably 90%) a good Alu foil will suffice for the learning stage of how to ride a foil, just like Aventout says above. Personally I think it will suffice for all of the riding of 50% of the riders who chose to go down the Alu foil route. But the fatigue & corrosion issue is a real factor with Aluminum and saltwater and we will only know the real effects in 12 months time.

Certain retailers here in the South of France have already stopped selling some brands of Alu foils because within 6 weeks it becomes impossible to unbolt the SS screws from the Alu components. The customers have complained to the shops and the warranty is void within 6 weeks. Why? The warranty on all Alu foils, if I'm not mistaken, necessitates that the foil is disassembled (taken apart) after each riding session and the magic TeffGel applied to the screws and threaded sections of Alu to avoid corrosion. If you do not do this your warranty is VOID (excuse me for the pun) and your foil will become mono block. Corroded together where the SS interacts with the Alu.

The Alu foils like Zeeko and Alpine are streets ahead of the Cabrina & Liquid Force Foils so my advice would be if you decide to go down the Alu foil route - choose a French foil and choose wisely.

If you plan on foiling and you feel that it is something you are going to really enjoy and stick with, opt directly for a carbon foil. My advice here would be a Ketos - zero after sale hassle and no history of broken or delaminated components - unlike some of the other foil manufacturers.

Just my personal two cents for what it's worth - steady winds
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orwell
Membre


Kitesurf depuis/since : 9
Messages : 21
Age : 43
Localisation : Argentina
Weight/Poids: : 75
Foil: : none
Kites/Ailes: : Ozone Edge
Wind/Vent: : 12
Inscription : 23/10/2015

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyLun 26 Oct 2015 - 19:39

Hello,

Thanks you very much for this detailled information.

I didn't take into account the corrosion on the alum, i thought that the anodised prepare to be on the water. But for sure that will not last forever.

Here in Argentina only 3 guys are foiling, and to get one we need to travel to Europe or US. We're on the end of the world. We have a liquid retailer but the foil is horrible and a north retailer, the north here cost 6000 dollars !!!





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canyon83
Membre


Kitesurf depuis/since : 2007
Messages : 1490
Age : 55
Localisation : Toulon
Weight/Poids: : 73
Foil: : Home made carbone
Kites/Ailes: : Concept'Air Wave 3m (2019)
Cabrinha Radar 3.5m (2017)
KAUPER XT 5m (2020)
Cabrinha Radar 7m (2016)

Wind/Vent: : 13/50kt
Inscription : 25/03/2015

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyLun 26 Oct 2015 - 19:51

Streets ahead: je ne connaissais pas l'expression, merci Chris  Very Happy
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chris_middleton
Membre
chris_middleton

Kitesurf depuis/since : 1997
Masculin Messages : 601
Age : 59
Localisation : Montpellier
Weight/Poids: : 93Kgs
Foil: : Zeeko Spitfire
Kites/Ailes: : North Carves
Wind/Vent: : 8-40 knts
Inscription : 01/10/2008

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyMar 27 Oct 2015 - 18:20

Streets Ahead - beaucoup en avance dans le sens 'Design et niveau de glisse' ;-)

Forget the North Foil - it really is a BAG OF SHIT and dont let anyone tell you otherwise!! Poor performance, poor quality in terms of rigidity and sooooooo overpriced - by comparison to the leading foils on the market. But there you go - I used to ride North Zeta Sails in my days of windsurfing and they were epic but it seems that 18 years on North can produce things that are truly crap by comparison to other manufacturers and no one has the balls to say it how it really is. Everyone is thinking it but no one is saying it.

Orwell is it a question of having to travel to avoid the import duties which inflate the product costs? I've heard that in South America the purchase price of EU goods are well and truly inflated by the duties.
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Windmaker
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Kitesurf depuis/since : 1999
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Age : 59
Localisation : Chypre
Weight/Poids: : 66
Foil: : F-One Escape 530 , Mirage 1000, Phantom 1280 et 940 , mats carbone HM de 85 et 105cm.
Kites/Ailes: : F-One Breeze 3/4/5 et 7m, F-One Diablo V5 10m/ Wing F-One Strike 2.8/3.5 et 4.2m.
Wind/Vent: : No limits, distributeur local F-One
Inscription : 07/07/2015

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyMer 28 Oct 2015 - 6:15

chris_middleton a écrit:
Streets Ahead - beaucoup en avance dans le sens 'Design et niveau de glisse' ;-)

Forget the North Foil - it really is a BAG OF SHIT and dont let anyone tell you otherwise!! Poor performance, poor quality in terms of rigidity and sooooooo overpriced - by comparison to the leading foils on the market. But there you go - I used to ride North Zeta Sails in my days of windsurfing and they were epic but it seems that 18 years on North can produce things that are truly crap by comparison to other manufacturers and no one has the balls to say it how it really is. Everyone is thinking it but no one is saying it.

Orwell is it a question of having to travel to avoid the import duties which inflate the product costs? I've heard that in South America the purchase price of EU goods are well and truly inflated by the duties.

Agreed all the way except for : North Sails (Windsurfing and Yacht sails) and North Kiteboarding are different companies (not related).
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chris_middleton
Membre
chris_middleton

Kitesurf depuis/since : 1997
Masculin Messages : 601
Age : 59
Localisation : Montpellier
Weight/Poids: : 93Kgs
Foil: : Zeeko Spitfire
Kites/Ailes: : North Carves
Wind/Vent: : 8-40 knts
Inscription : 01/10/2008

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyMer 28 Oct 2015 - 7:41

Thanks for the heads-up Windmaker - slightly bizarre however, when the kite company profits from the same logo, name and attached credibility : the power of marketing...
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Windmaker
Membre


Kitesurf depuis/since : 1999
Masculin Messages : 614
Age : 59
Localisation : Chypre
Weight/Poids: : 66
Foil: : F-One Escape 530 , Mirage 1000, Phantom 1280 et 940 , mats carbone HM de 85 et 105cm.
Kites/Ailes: : F-One Breeze 3/4/5 et 7m, F-One Diablo V5 10m/ Wing F-One Strike 2.8/3.5 et 4.2m.
Wind/Vent: : No limits, distributeur local F-One
Inscription : 07/07/2015

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyMer 28 Oct 2015 - 15:32

North kiteboarding (USA/Austria) certainly profited (and still does) from North Sails (Germany) reputation. Seeing how many Germans use North kites I bet you many think it is the same German company as North sails Very Happy

Similar names but different logos.

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Norths11

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? North310

Other companies sharing similar names

North Safety

North Face
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Nicolas Zeeko
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Nicolas Zeeko

Kitesurf depuis/since : 1998
Messages : 493
Localisation : Montpellier
Inscription : 22/10/2008

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyJeu 29 Oct 2015 - 17:45

I can answer you as ZEEKO sell both Alloy and Carbon hydrofoil.
Usually, Carbon Hydrofoil are more 'performance' dedicated. Thisi is due to carbon foil use thinner profil for the mast and smaller wings to go faster and upwindier. This is the choice of the racers and of people looking for performance.

Alloy foil are usually heavier (for Zeeko this is 800g heavier than the Carbon one) and their design is more 'learning' dedicated, even if the Zeeko alloy is one of the most performant alloy foil (max speed I did is 30knots not too bad!, there is some other 'performant' alloy foils).
For example with same wings, the max speed of the alloy foil is around 3knots slower than carbon one.

Then you can go ahead for alloy or carbon.

There is only a few tips to know:
When you ride with a carbon foil, you will never go to alloy foil (maybe this will be wrong in the future). Carbon foils are very performant and friendly to use, and even the price is higher, the additionnal feeling of performance and beauty of building make your choice clear if you have the money.
Alloy foil, the price is way cheaper than carbon (due to the production process and the cost of the fabric) but need to be cleaned every time you use it, and every 2 weeks you need to apply T-gel on every screws. With carbon foils, there is less effort to keep it clean, even if you need to take care of it also.

I hope to be clear and sorry for my 'french' english Very Happy

ride easy
Nicolas

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orwell
Membre


Kitesurf depuis/since : 9
Messages : 21
Age : 43
Localisation : Argentina
Weight/Poids: : 75
Foil: : none
Kites/Ailes: : Ozone Edge
Wind/Vent: : 12
Inscription : 23/10/2015

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyMer 4 Nov 2015 - 15:01

Merci !
C'est très clair
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chris_middleton
Membre
chris_middleton

Kitesurf depuis/since : 1997
Masculin Messages : 601
Age : 59
Localisation : Montpellier
Weight/Poids: : 93Kgs
Foil: : Zeeko Spitfire
Kites/Ailes: : North Carves
Wind/Vent: : 8-40 knts
Inscription : 01/10/2008

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyMer 4 Nov 2015 - 21:02

Comme tu sais Nico tu n'as pas besoin d'être apologétique pour ton Anglais c'est presque parfait ;-) Je suis complètement d'accord avec ton explication 100% Tchuss
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Jolt
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Jolt

Kitesurf depuis/since : 2005
Masculin Messages : 214
Age : 54
Localisation : Entre Cotentin et Wissant, actuellement Fuerte
Weight/Poids: : 84kgs
Foil: : Surf Pirateboards demontable 6'10"
Foilboards Pirateboards
Spotz 2015
Foil proto haut AR de ~800

Kites/Ailes: : Flysurfer Sonic2 15m, Kitech FRS Ultralight 12m, Ozone Edge 11m, 9m et 7m pour foiler, RRD Religion 9m, 7m, 6m et 5m pour surfer, Genetrix Hydra 7m pour la baston pourri, et Peak4 8m et Viron 6m pour le snowkite
Wind/Vent: : limite side-off en surf;)
Inscription : 07/08/2013

Foil Alum ou Carbon ? Empty
MessageSujet: Re: Foil Alum ou Carbon ?   Foil Alum ou Carbon ? EmptyJeu 5 Nov 2015 - 12:06

Windmaker a écrit:


Agreed all the way except for : North Sails (Windsurfing and Yacht sails) and North Kiteboarding are different companies (not related).

North Sails (au moins la branche windsurf), Fanatic, Ion et North Kiteboarding sont tous les propriétés de Boards & More International:

http://www.windmag.com/actu-business-boards-and-more-change-mains

Sinon, North Sails est une entreprise américaine fondée en 1957 à San Diego par Lowell North. (wikipédia)
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